This was actually my stance until more of the idea came to light to show that this is not an open-world, standard MMORPG. In fact, judging from what Topazan said, I am not even sure if it is an MMORPG. Players are going to be segregated into smallish groups. It may work in that case. Note that it could work. I'm still not completely sure what it would add.

After thinking about it today, i have to say it would be novel, but that is it. When it comes to reality of playing like it was stated earlier characters wont really care, a few may, but it would be a hassle for many and they might be pushed away from the game just because of it. I was talking to a few people they say they like using the same names alot, and if red23423 was thir name for a reason then they would feel even worse then being a red out of 20000 reds. I forgot the primary it is not what we want it is what the players will want. our job is to translate what they want with our story and game, and let them play.

So it was a solid discussion when a bunch of people with no understanding of my overall plans or goals were trying to dissuade me from a design choice I already made, but it was crazy when they actually started giving constructive advice on what problems might arise and how to deal with them? I see.

Edit: Sorry, that was a little harsh. I do appreciate the opportunity to discuss some of the merits of the system so I have a better idea why I'm doing what I'm doing.


I already explained what I think it will add, as well as why it's particularly necessary with the design I was planning. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

If you're curious, the game is going to be massively multiplayer, but perhaps more of a simulation or strategy game than an RPG. These cities will exist in the same world, but traveling between them will be long, difficult, and dangerous, at least compared to how it is in most games. Only certain types of people (such as merchants, soldiers, or explorers) will have reason to attempt it regularly. Most of the gameplay and opportunity will take place within cities. How all this is achieved is another story.

I'm sorry for flippin earlier, it was just that when ever I got on and saw that there was a new reply or topic in t he Game Design section, I was expecting a great new topic, but it kept being this one. = l So...

But yeah I relooked over your idea, and I still think it's overcomplex for something that doesn't really add anything the players will play the game for. I mean your not going too wait for a game too come out so I can name stuff...

Just my two cents(Haha Viper) ~Kronos

No problem, I understand that.

I appreciate your opinion, but I've already explained why I wanted to do this.

Instead of manually drilling into Game Design, use "view new posts"; or better yet, make that the URL in your bookmarks. Then you directly see which threads are updated.

Beyond that, if a thread does not interest you, then don't read it. This is a better solution than being non-constructive.



The OP's world is a niche concept. The other place I can see it being used as I said before is in hardcore, obligatory RP environments where players often complain about floaty names being metagamed.

Full loot is compliated does not add much to (actually detracts from) the experience of most players, but for some it is a critical feature. Name masking and aliasing is similar.

Make a thief in UO and stay in Felucca (the FFA side of the server) for at least a month, then revisit this idea.

Could you give an executive summary of the problems for those of us who don't have the time to play on Felucca for a month?

I somehow get the feeling that it was utter chaos (well, I have heard stories, too). I like the idea of player-to-player theft, but it requires a lot of social systems in the game that are complex and hard to pull off. I don't think you could just add pick-pocketing skills that work on players in WoW tomorrow and expect good results.

The theft system in Achaea was amazing, but it was just one piece of a huge machine that included complex RP-centric "player-killing cause" rules, and it was tied into the player-run political and policing system. All of this came together and worked, but I don't think you could just piece-meal the system into other games.

Just a quick comment on thieves. They were like flies in UO in general. Zillions of them hovering around the banks, or around the vendors. Anyplace where you stopped you were going to be pick pocketed, of course in UO all you had to do was call for the guards who would then instantly kill the player. That didn't help though if the thieves worked in teams. One guy would run up steal as much stuff as he could grab and start running towards his friend. You'd yell for the guards who would kill them because he was now flagged dishonorable, but then his friend(s) would just loot all of your stuff off of his corpse because anyone could loot a dishonorable corpse. Another thing to note was that most thieves were new characters. Players reputations would get bad, so they would just make new ones all the time, and use them in tandem with their friends as described above.

It's wierd the draw to that. We hated thieves, absolutely hated them and they were everywhere, running around in their underwear. But just before I quit the game, myself and a friend of mine decided that we'd try it out one time and just see what the thrill was. I have to admit, there was a weird rush about it. The friend I played with was a guy I knew in real life, so we were on the phone the whole time, and we couldn't stop laughing about it. There was some poor guy who I pick pocketed who must have had about 1000 Fish Cakes. That means he actually caught all those fish, then cooked them, and was probably on his way to the bank to deposit them. So I just do the stealth grab and run, and he yells for guards, who kill me. Johnnie grabs all his fish cakes, and the guy is chasing him yelling, "Hey, wait! Those are my fish cakes!" We got a good laugh out of it, but I guess that's the appeal. We lasted for a few hours as thieves and quit the game.

I would be lying if I said it wasn't a lot of fun in those few hours, but the problem is that our fun was discouraging to other players. I'd be careful about actually putting pick pocketing into a game. UO did it, and since then every one else seems to make it work on NPCs only if they add it at all. I think there is definately a reason for that.

The Achaean theft system was not just simple pick-pocketing. Instead, a player with the Hypnosis skill would snap his fingers in front of a potential target. If they did not have defenses up (which many people had up all the time), the target would go into a trance, and you could make suggestions to them. The only thing you could not suggest was for them to attack themselves or anyone else. After that though, everything was fair game. You could have them take off their gear and hand it to you. You could make them drop their money on the ground, etc. You could steal anything from them.

But, again, this game had so many social systems set up that supported it. That thief was likely to answer to someone, be it a House leader or a City leader. One time when I was newish to the game (you could not steal from someone who just started), someone stole some very expensive custom jewelry from me and my city leader's threatened a war on the House that kept the member who robbed me. In the end, they gave it all back due to political pressure.

Is there anywhere I can read about the Achaean social and political systems? I guess I could always log in and ask around, but I'm hoping someone somewhere has written something about them.

The game actually has a massive amount of in-game documentation. However, you can read it all through the website as well here. Try reading some of the help files that are listed on that page, as well as perhaps some of these:

"PK" (many interesting files come up when you search just "pk", including PK rules, arenas, contracts and marks, cause, etc.)

"Politics"
"Houses"

There are tons more help files linked in each file.

Awesome, thanks.

Many RPG gamers want gameplay to be dependent on the character skills not player skills, however that quickly changes in a graphical environment and stealing/pickpocketing is a prime example of that.

For example: You have your bag open. You, the player, see your cash disappear from the bag. Your character didn't see it happen and the guards didn't see it happen because of their stats/rolls vs the robber's stats/rolls. This aggravates and frustrates players as they feel the thief was 'caught' but the game system does not acknowledge that at all.

"then if person getting rob has a high awareness then that persons name pops up on the screen or they are frozen till in game authorities are called."

Why should the theif be locked down? Why no chance to escape? Most people that have played and enjoyed using thieving skills in RPGs (for reasons other than griefing) can tell you that the majority of fun is the chase and not the theft of the item.

There are a lot more issues than that, but it all boils down to the two main hurdle of PvP. Most players do not like other players to be able to negatively impact in any way, and coding solutions to protect players in a world designed to allow players to affect each other results in exploitable loopholes or broken core mechanics.

Theft is a form of PvP and design decisions for it need to be treated that way.