Not at all. You would be part of the subset of the playerbase that is just there for a solid RP environment. However, we have consistently seen in MMOS that the more extreme the rules are that dictate social interact, the more it attracts the two extremes., the more it attracts specific extremes down the line of player types.

As for the 'tells' and 'whispers' issue, I'd go as far as to ask why /tell would even exist in a strict RP environment. Whispers can be done by proximity. In UO, if I want to whisper to you, I stand near you and use the whisper command. Only you (and those that happen to get very close) can hear the whisper. To me, that is more realistic than slash commands and telepathic messaging.

There are certain aspects of MMO gaming that we have become so used to that we now accept it as a necessary function and no longer question it. Slash commands are archaic. In a 21st century program, a slash command should not exist... ever. There should be a button or menu for every feature of the application. However this system has been around for ages and we just accept it as 'the way things are.'

Much like the naming system. Is there a town on this planet that has only one Bob? Only one Mary? Wouldn't it make more sense, if a name *has to be* unique to make it the last name?

Part of the hurdle to making an RP environment is moving past the existing unquestioned conventions that have been carried over from MMO to MMO for about a decade now.

Removing things like /whisper and /tell are an interesting topic. To me, this depends on the game, because it is removing conveniences and conventions for the sake of an RP environment. I would be very unhappy about not being able to communicate with my friends if they were not in the same area as me, and would likely not play such a game, but that is just me.

Also, don't remove slash commands! I hate using the mouse when I am typing, because it only slows me down (I don't think I have used a menu to copy or paste text in years). It is great when games have both options, such as many modern games that have several buttons along the top of the chat box to select for /say, /yell, etc., but I never use them, because I can type it much faster than I could click it.

here is what we are working on. We are getting rid of names like pldoeni333 by not offering any numbers in the name selection you can choose you name to be anything from {a - Crate of Flake- George jones] people can have the same name if they want. There is no talking to the world only those in a close proximity
that is going to be true with pms as well. if you want long distant pms and add some one to your friends then you will have to get a contact number that will be assigned to them for eg: 222456e That way it allows people thier privacy without 40 people adding him because he has super armor or the sort. the friends you want will know how to get a hold of you. as for reporting anybidy you click their body or dialog and click a button that will help you find the no no button.

First, I don't think I said anything about a strict RP environment. Second, tells are just one of the possible game features that would requires each player to be uniquely identifiable. Here's few more off the top of my head:
1. Reporting players for harassment, like jackolantern brought up.
2. Voting for players in guild elections.
3. Banning a player from a house.
4. Keeping sales records of an NPC vendor.

And there's the issue of impersonating other players. That was something that occasionally happened in UO if I remember. Disguise skills are one thing if the setting calls for it, but impersonating people by creating a new character with their name is another.


Not sure I agree with you about slash commands, but what other reason is there continue the practice of having players constantly broadcasting their names?


Not sure what you mean. It would make more sense for it to be the first name. Last names are designed to be shared by entire families.


I'm still unclear as to what your objection is to an alias system. You've discussed alternatives, but I don't recall you going in to much detail as to why these are superior. If you could explain to me why you are so strongly against the system I described, it would help me understand a lot better.

Well, my personal objections to an alias system is that it just seems like it is an unnecessary hurdle for players to communicate within their community about other players, it seems to me that it would hurt community in general, and it could make it difficult for players to use voice chat or other out-of-game tools and reference other players. I know you said that limiting out-of-game communication is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is limiting players from being able to play how they want to play within the rules of the game.

I don't think there would be anything wrong with the alias system as long as you never had to communicate an alias to another person, and everyone had a standard, public name. That way, if a player wanted to, they could assign an alias, and that would be like giving them a nickname. That name would show up on your screen, but you could still get their real name if you needed it. Having no public names, and communicating aliases with other players just sounds confusing and like too much of a burden for the players, many of whom would likely be fine with just having standard, public names.

Part II has been uploaded.

From a pure RP standpoint, /tell is OOC information and hardcore “Roleplay Intensive” (RPI) MUDs don’t include any OOC backchannel communication. In my experience in the Neverwinter Nights Community’s RP worlds was that these OOC backchannels are needed for building community. There are a couple of possible ways to handle duplicate names in /tell and reporting situations.

Via context menu selection on the avatar. In addition to the usual attack, trade, etc. you could get a “send tell” or “report to GM” option.

Via “tell player” – If you know the name of the player ID, there could be a specialized command for sending a tell to a player, e.g. /tp. This works best for worlds that have a single sign-on for forum and in-game.

On the UI side, make the source tag for combat information and strings clickable and default to a tell. If I see someone in combat, look at the combat information channel and look for their alias in the different entries, I could click on it to send a tell. If someone says something or emotes, I could click on their name and do the same.




The Nazi RP’er phenomenon is partially a problem of mixed use types on MMOs. There is a general problem mixing roleplayers and achiever types. They really should not be on the same server – period! It is not dissimilar to the hiker/mountain-biker problems. I am an avid hiker and an avid mountain biker and can see the issues from both perspectives. The problem stems from the fact that when I’m mountain biking, I’m there for different reasons than when hiking. Mountain biking is about doing sports and hiking is about being undisturbed and enjoying nature. Mountain bikers can’t help but break the zen state of the hikers. Normally, this is not a big deal if everyone is considerate of one another. The biker approaches the hiker, slows down and passes safely so as not to disturb the hiker too much and everyone goes on their way. The problem comes in when inconsiderate mountain bikers take a “get out of my way” attitude and barrels through the hikers. The latter take the attitude that mountain bikers are a problem and in return mountain bikers complain about nazi hikers. Mountain bikers in turn have problems with motorcross and quad riders whose steeds turn the trails into mushy sand that is very unfriendly to mountain bikes. The solution is different backcountry recreational activities in segregated places; just as the trend in MMos is segregating PvE, PvP, etc. into different places.

Then again RP enforced worlds still have problems with some players insisting on everyone roleplaying “right”, where “right” means their own personal style. But that is a community management issue.

In some contexts, it is highly desirable. In enforced RP worlds, people typically eschew voice chat as an immersion breaker. It is however not desirable in most contexts.



Again, in some - but certainly not all - contexts, not having a standard, publically available name is desirable.

While I agree with the above premise on /tells, it just doesn't work in an MMOG because people will simply turn to third party programs. Using the Ultima Online example, everyone would simply run in windowed mode and communicate with one another on ICQ, Messenger, AIM, etc. Not doing so put you at a disadvantage. Doing so was an inconvenience and a hassle, but a necessity.

^--- That's pretty much my view of it as well.

I agree. The tools have their place, and realism/RP vs playability can provide for a rather tricky balancing act.



That's pretty much where I was going with that. Every slash command should have an equivalent UI element of some sort.

That's a valid concern, but I can't think of many situations where it would be a HUGE inconvenience. I expect in general players will generally be using the same alias to refer to the same people.

I have acknowledged that this might only work in a certain type of game. (Same thing could be said about any design choice, really). One other thing about my design that might help is it encourages players to remain in a relatively compact proximity, so people frequently associate with the same people and can easily arrange to meet face-to-face to exchange contact information.

Even in a more traditional game, what's the worse that could happen? Guilds could keep official contact lists of their members and pass them on whenever someone joins. Groups and raids could make sure everyone shares a standard set of call signs before they embark. If two people want to talk on voice chat, they just need to meet up in game once in a great while to take a second to synchronize contact lists.

I do think there are advantages to encouraging players to speak face to face. It creates a conversation that others can join, if appropriate. It makes players more likely to take notice of those they're not directly interacting with. It cuts down on faction spying. It creates a local sense of community.

It would be more complicated than the current model, but maybe not as much as one might think. Even though you can read any player's name, I expect you only remember a small portion of the one's you see. I don't know about you, but I usually have to somehow record the names of people I might be interested in meeting again. So how much advantage do we really get from hardcoded names?

Didn't you earlier advocate a system without tells and without unique names? How is that making things easier for the players, if that's your main concern?

I was kind of hoping you would come up with your own answer, because I don't get the impression you have the same problem with it as jackolantern does. Maybe I'm wrong, but jackolantern seems primarily concerned about ease and convenience for the players, whereas you discussed alternatives that come with difficulties of their own.

Honestly, I walk into a new town no one knows me. Save maybe a friend i was going to meet their. We have met before gave eachother contact info. The same should be with games. If i rob you in real life you would have to chase me. or give a discription if i disgues then you lose. Role play. Although as for describing somebody who scams you. If they have to click on you to see your name, even if there are 20 bob hopes in the game, the possibility of one scamming you and one being right next to him (unless thats the scam part) other then that you can highlight their texts and report them or tagg them. A tag would leave a red mark above them that they would have to appeal to get removed, false taging leads to you getting tagged or banned. a tag would warn these people of a scammer. A tag could be a easy as making their name appear all the time. If you have in game player justice they know who to catch. Thats just an idea.

That is my number one concern with all novel ideas for MMORPG design: Convenience and accessibility for players. I am all for new ideas, but if ease of use and accessibility issues crop up in a game, it will fail, no matter how novel the ideas are, or how well the rest of it works.

Starting to play a new MMORPG is a difficult and confusing proposition in itself. For F2P games or other such games with little up-front investment, players give an average of under 15 minutes to a game to get their barrings (taken from Richard Bartle's book; I think it was less than that, but I know it was under 15 minutes). After that, they log out, uninstall and never come back. Boxed, P2P games have longer (typically the 30 days free subscription, but sometimes less), but not many of us here will be designing a game that gets shelf-life at GameStop. Each "MMORPG foundation and/or tradition" that is stripped away is just more players that may turn away from your game due to frustration, and it is hard enough to survive as an indie MMORPG.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. If I may ask a favor, could you please list a few situations in which an alias system with a lack of hard coded names would be particularly frustrating or confusing? I ask honestly, because I can't think of any. Keep in mind, players can still choose a name, even if it's not hard coded.

If you're talking to the unknown person, then "Excuse me, sir/ma'am" works fine for the first meeting. Afterwards, "What's your name, anyways?" should provide you with a suitable form of address.

If you're talking about the unknown person, then it depends on why you're talking about them. Maybe one person knows his name. "I just found a new recruit for our guild. His name is George." Maybe he could be described based on a previous experience. "Hey look, it's that jerk who kept stealing our kills." Maybe he could be described based on the nature of your acquaintance. "The leader of the enemy faction is cunning and ruthless."

Like I say, we get by without hard coded names in real world. I really don't see what would be so difficult about doing the same in a game.